John Jaeckel: Taking Stock: Detroit And San Jose

First.

Sweet.

The Sharks come in to the UC tonight off a road win at Columbus last night. They, like the Hawks, are a bit banged up as well. In light of where the Sharks are on this road trip, there is no excuse for the Hawks not to come out tonight with more jump and gain an early advantage.

JJ

When - if - they do, they can beat anyone, instead of chasing all nite (last game against Detroit at the UC notwithstanding).

Is it a part of Q's obsession with matching lines, leading to a "let the game come to us" mentality, leading to the opponent dictating the play? Coming out flat waiting to see what the ultimate line changes?

At home, conference rival, playoff positionning at stake....

"I have heard through sources, one of the “hold-ups” on Blackhawk trades recently is a desire to see what the team has in certain prospects. This is all prudent and fine, but it also skirts the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Basically, no NHL teams win consistently, especially not in the postseason, with this much inexperience on the roster."



I think SB needs to decide fairly soon about the prospects. So far he has been able to take his time because the Hawks have been near the top of the division and conference. That could very well change soon between the injuries and the upcoming nine game road trip. If I may borrow this from Oggie "tick-tock-tick tock".....

This has kind of been my complaint on Stan since he took over. Stan seems to be a "safe" GM. That doesn't make him bad. But, like a poker player who constantly plays "tight", it's hard to improve your chip stack.

Now maybe Stan hasn't pulled the trigger on a deal because the right guy isn't available yet. But if there is a player that could help the Hawks and the reason the trade hasn't gone through is they want to see more of Marcus Kruger, well, then yeah, I have a problem with that. The winning GMs are the ones who push their chips in.

I hope the Hawks have something more in the tank tonight. Hopefully Kane and Hossa do, because they weren't particularly good yesterday at the Joe.(although Hossa appeared to pick it up after the constant booing.) I feel a broken record pattern coming on concerning Kane. There's a storm a'comin JJ...

Through three games against the Red Wings- each team has 4 points. And with the exception of yesterday's 1st period and the 3rd period of the 30th, the play has mostly tilted the Hawks way. As litmus tests go, the Hawks have held their own. Anyone who doesn't think the Hawks can compete in the West is either seeing what they want to see, or hasn't seen much.

However, winning the Central is key. Because the remaining two teams of Chi-Det-STL seem destined for a 1st round 4-5 matchup. Making the Playoffs even harder.

Go Hawks.

This has kind of been my complaint on Stan since he took over. Stan seems to be a "safe" GM. That doesn't make him bad. But, like a poker player who constantly plays "tight", it's hard to improve your chip stack.

Now maybe Stan hasn't pulled the trigger on a deal because the right guy isn't available yet. But if there is a player that could help the Hawks and the reason the trade hasn't gone through is they want to see more of Marcus Kruger, well, then yeah, I have a problem with that. The winning GMs are the ones who push their chips in.

I hope the Hawks have something more in the tank tonight. Hopefully Kane and Hossa do, because they weren't particularly good yesterday at the Joe.(although Hossa appeared to pick it up after the constant booing.) I feel a broken record pattern coming on concerning Kane. There's a storm a'comin JJ...

Through three games against the Red Wings- each team has 4 points. And with the exception of yesterday's 1st period and the 3rd period of the 30th, the play has mostly tilted the Hawks way. As litmus tests go, the Hawks have held their own. Anyone who doesn't think the Hawks can compete in the West is either seeing what they want to see, or hasn't seen much.

However, winning the Central is key. Because the remaining two teams of Chi-Det-STL seem destined for a 1st round 4-5 matchup. Making the Playoffs even harder.

Go Hawks.
- yahoodi

Good analysis especially your last point about playoff seeding.

I caught the 3rd period yesterday and the first ~10 minutes of play by the Hawks was as dominating a performance as I have seen in a long time. Teams tend to put in a full 60 minutes come the playoffs which from the sound of things may not have been the case yesterday. So, assuming guys like Sharp are back and the rest of the team stays healthy, I think the Hawks are as good as anyone in the West.

Running the Central Division gauntlet this year is harder than years past, however, and time will tell if the wear and tear of that undos all three from the Division. Certainly Vancouver benefitted last season from a weak division helping it to have home ice for the playoffs. Not that they weren't bloody good...

Unlike a few years ago perhaps the real question is who from the West can get past the winner of the East?

JJ
long time reader - first time poster, love the blog

looking at our roster now and thinking back to the beginning of the season. How good would Madden and Sopel look on this roster? seem like just the kind of guys we'd like to have to fill out the roster and both were available at the start of the season. Both have holes in their games but that's experience we're looking for now. Thoughts on why they were passed up? Sopel v. Scott, Madden v. the slew of rookies? Those guys want too much money or more gauranteed playing time?

Young and inexperienced isn't always a bad thing, as evidenced by the Hawks in 2009. I agree they need some more depth, but to suggest that Shaw and Hayes won't be good enough to fill those bottom 6 needs in May is as premature as suggesting they are. Let's wait and see what they have.

Two more pressing needs are #1, a top 4 defensive defenseman who is good on either the PK or PP, and #2, a #2 C.

I was thinking, would the Hawks have the assets to deal to NYI for both Mark Streit and Frans Nielsen? That would be 1 trade that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Perhaps a package including Frolik, a prospect like Brandon Saad, which would be enticing to the Isles and a 1st rounder? I could see that happening.

It would give the Hawks PP a good QB, a good partner for Hammer, and a big body up the middle who's good in all 3 zones. It would also make sense for the young Islanders as they would get another couple of young building blocks as well as Frolik who provides them with a still young, versatile two-way player who will compliment their crop of talented young scorers well.

JJ
long time reader - first time poster, love the blog

looking at our roster now and thinking back to the beginning of the season. How good would Madden and Sopel look on this roster? seem like just the kind of guys we'd like to have to fill out the roster and both were available at the start of the season. Both have holes in their games but that's experience we're looking for now. Thoughts on why they were passed up? Sopel v. Scott, Madden v. the slew of rookies? Those guys want too much money or more gauranteed playing time?
- Section114

Right now I'd rather have Shaw or Hayes then Madden because they have already shown the ability to play up and down the lineup, whereas Madden is a 4th line C. As for Sopel, I don't think he would add any more than OD, Montador or Lepisto, the guys he would be competing with for ice-time.

Props to Andrew Brunette...his HARD WORK especially early in the 3rd yesterday set the tone for the comeback. Nice to see "Bruno" come alive. Just wish Kaner would extricate his cranium from his anus and do likewise.

This has kind of been my complaint on Stan since he took over. Stan seems to be a "safe" GM. That doesn't make him bad. But, like a poker player who constantly plays "tight", it's hard to improve your chip stack.

Now maybe Stan hasn't pulled the trigger on a deal because the right guy isn't available yet. But if there is a player that could help the Hawks and the reason the trade hasn't gone through is they want to see more of Marcus Kruger, well, then yeah, I have a problem with that. The winning GMs are the ones who push their chips in.

I hope the Hawks have something more in the tank tonight. Hopefully Kane and Hossa do, because they weren't particularly good yesterday at the Joe.(although Hossa appeared to pick it up after the constant booing.) I feel a broken record pattern coming on concerning Kane. There's a storm a'comin JJ...

Through three games against the Red Wings- each team has 4 points. And with the exception of yesterday's 1st period and the 3rd period of the 30th, the play has mostly tilted the Hawks way. As litmus tests go, the Hawks have held their own. Anyone who doesn't think the Hawks can compete in the West is either seeing what they want to see, or hasn't seen much.

However, winning the Central is key. Because the remaining two teams of Chi-Det-STL seem destined for a 1st round 4-5 matchup. Making the Playoffs even harder.

Go Hawks.
- yahoodi

I wouldnt call him safe or conservative or afraid to make a mistake. After all, he dumped Campbell, Barker, Huet, Brouwer, Buff, Ladd and I think he is behind or endorsed taking a look recently at longshots like Hayes and Shaw, Morin etc. Do I like or agree with all of his moves - No, but he has made them.

Let's assume that 20% of the league are sellers as of this morning (Columbus, Anaheim, Tampa, NYI, Carolina, Edmonton). To me, that means that he is in competition with 23 other GM's who want to improve their teams and try to make the playoffs. The sellers probably are asking for a king's ransom for players that just aren't that good or are not the guys Bowman wants/needs.

Buffalo, Montreal, Calgary and Phoenix may be about to slide to the sellers side. Once again, what do they have on the market to offer and at what price? Probably overpriced veterans with bad contracts or not the defenceman or center Bowman really needs. None of us know with any certainty.

ANd once again, what do you think Bowman should be offering to get a player like Gleason, Allen, Oduya, Kubina, Bressard etc.? Those teams are probably asking for Stan's #1 draft pick and Hayes or Morin or players now on the roster that he doesn't want to give up.

I wouldnt call him safe or conservative or afraid to make a mistake. After all, he dumped Campbell, Barker, Huet, Brouwer, Buff, Ladd and I think he is behind or endorsed taking a look recently at longshots like Hayes and Shaw, Morin etc. Do I like or agree with all of his moves - No, but he has made them.

Let's assume that 20% of the league are sellers as of this morning (Columbus, Anaheim, Tampa, NYI, Carolina, Edmonton). To me, that means that he is in competition with 23 other GM's who want to improve their teams and try to make the playoffs. The sellers probably are asking for a king's ransom for players that just aren't that good or are not the guys Bowman wants/needs.

ANd once again, what do you think Bowman should be offering to get a player like Gleason, Allen, Oduya, Kubina, Bressard etc.? Those teams are probably asking for Stan's #1 draft pick and Hayes or Morin or players now on the roster that he doesn't want to give up.
- RickJ

Exactly my point. With the exception of the Barker deal (and only because the second peice of the Barker deal is blossoming...) all of those players were "dumped"...they weren't traded for players that are helping the Hawks. I know everyone will cry "Salary cap" on most of these deals but I don't buy it. Everyone screams that trading Campbell for Jack Squat is the right move because it gives us all this cap room. And what are the Hawks doing with all this cap room? Right now nothing, and short term it looks like they're trying to rent a defenseman that's maybe half as good as the player they traded. And the fact that Leddy has matured faster than anyone thought makes it worse. Jesus the flyers trade Richards and Carter because they have Giroux and JVR ready to take their place. And they get a serious effin Haul for those two- Simmonds, Schenn, and Coutourier are awesome complimentary pieces. (as is Voracek.). We've gotten nothing from trading Buff and Campbell- two ALL STARS!!!!! Nothing to show.

I don't think it's unfair to ask Stan to make a trade where the Hawks get the clear cut better player.

players now on the roster that he doesn't want to give up.
- RickJ

I feel like that is the big deal breaker right now... Addition without subtraction is something that is essential for them and going to be very difficult IMO

Solid games from Shaw and Hayes... Really really like the way that 4th line plays. They go in the corners, create opportunities and look like they care.

Kane has to be sick/injured, having off ice problems/drams or pissed off about something. He doesn't even look good skating in a straight line.

What are you guys hearing on the 'Hawks possibly standing pat and holding on to the cap space in light of the CBA battle coming up?

I'd really hate to see 5-6 million come in the way of a serious run to the cup. Who knows what'll happen during the CBA battle.

Yeah its easy to talk about other people's money but the 'Hawks are closer than most teams. I'd sure hate to see them blow it by holding on to the money and all these precious prospects.

then the need for some experienced, capable NHL help can’t be ignored.

Amen....

On Fox Chgo: Part-Time Effort Earns Blackhawks One Point://bit.ly/yCWoW1

Not enough effort? Not the right talent? Or a little of both?

What are you guys hearing on the 'Hawks possibly standing pat and holding on to the cap space in light of the CBA battle coming up?

I'd really hate to see 5-6 million come in the way of a serious run to the cup. Who knows what'll happen during the CBA battle.

Yeah its easy to talk about other people's money but the 'Hawks are closer than most teams. I'd sure hate to see them blow it by holding on to the money and all these precious prospects.
- blackhawk24

If most of the cap space is spent on rentals or bottom half of the roster players....The CBA feud really doesn't matter.

Exactly my point. With the exception of the Barker deal (and only because the second peice of the Barker deal is blossoming...) all of those players were "dumped"...they weren't traded for players that are helping the Hawks. I know everyone will cry "Salary cap" on most of these deals but I don't buy it. Everyone screams that trading Campbell for Jack Squat is the right move because it gives us all this cap room. And what are the Hawks doing with all this cap room? Right now nothing, and short term it looks like they're trying to rent a defenseman that's maybe half as good as the player they traded. And the fact that Leddy has matured faster than anyone thought makes it worse. Jesus the flyers trade Richards and Carter because they have Giroux and JVR ready to take their place. And they get a serious effin Haul for those two- Simmonds, Schenn, and Coutourier are awesome complimentary pieces. (as is Voracek.). We've gotten nothing from trading Buff and Campbell- two ALL STARS!!!!! Nothing to show.

I don't think it's unfair to ask Stan to make a trade where the Hawks get the clear cut better player.
- yahoodi

Meanwhile, back on earth....

1. The Hawks could not afford salary back.

2. Equating Buff, Ladd and Versteeg, at that time with Richards or Carter is a stretch. I love them all, especially Ladd, they all blossomed with opportunity. So settle down Francis.

3. All of a sudden, I love how the default position on all the prospects is that they will fail. There is no doubt in my mind, that had Morin not been injured mid last year, he would be on same track as Leddy. Nit pick his skating etc...the guy is and will be a solid player.

4. Had the Hawks kept Campbell, we would be stuck like the prior years, with minimal flexibility and if we were struggling, would be twice as bad as now.

5. The conventional wisdom says that making a move automatically makes things better, when history shows that deadline trades seldom have any impact. Those are facts.

6. If we make a deal, which I would like to see to add a piece lets do it sooner than later, to allow for ample adjustment time. Primary need is on the blue line. I know from listening to most of you nothing is off limits to obtain a 4 to 6 dman Lord would I love to sell any of you just about anything.

While it is conventional wisdom to add experience etc, lets not ignore the fact that there are no guarantees. 95%of 2010 roster had minimal playoff experience and won. Look how much experience the Red Wings have and how many early bow outs they have had over time....same for Sharks. It is just a reality. In this day and age I am as comfortable with someone like Hayes and Smith who have played big games in College and shined in biggest moment. Same for Shaw in Jr last year. No doubt Toews and Kanes international resume transcended their thin NHL resumes. Winners are winners and figure out how to win.

Time to take the little girl to roller skating party.

JJ
long time reader - first time poster, love the blog

looking at our roster now and thinking back to the beginning of the season. How good would Madden and Sopel look on this roster? seem like just the kind of guys we'd like to have to fill out the roster and both were available at the start of the season. Both have holes in their games but that's experience we're looking for now. Thoughts on why they were passed up? Sopel v. Scott, Madden v. the slew of rookies? Those guys want too much money or more gauranteed playing time?
- Section114

DING DING DING DING (and welcome)

Madden, like some others, may have burned some bridges on the way out

Right now I'd rather have Shaw or Hayes then Madden because they have already shown the ability to play up and down the lineup, whereas Madden is a 4th line C. As for Sopel, I don't think he would add any more than OD, Montador or Lepisto, the guys he would be competing with for ice-time.
- andru2797

114 was using those guys as examples of types of players. But . . .

A Madden is going to likely win more faceoffs, play better defense and then there's that experience of 2 Cup rings (or is it 3)?

A Sopel is going to do two things much better than all those guys you mention: kill penalties and block shots.

And, of course, he has a ring, too.

What are you guys hearing on the 'Hawks possibly standing pat and holding on to the cap space in light of the CBA battle coming up?

I'd really hate to see 5-6 million come in the way of a serious run to the cup. Who knows what'll happen during the CBA battle.

Yeah its easy to talk about other people's money but the 'Hawks are closer than most teams. I'd sure hate to see them blow it by holding on to the money and all these precious prospects.
- blackhawk24

if that is the case, believe me, it will NEVER be publicly acknowledged. The party line will be: prices were too high, everyone was asking for our top guys, etc.

Exactly my point. With the exception of the Barker deal (and only because the second peice of the Barker deal is blossoming...) all of those players were "dumped"...they weren't traded for players that are helping the Hawks. I know everyone will cry "Salary cap" on most of these deals but I don't buy it. Everyone screams that trading Campbell for Jack Squat is the right move because it gives us all this cap room. And what are the Hawks doing with all this cap room? Right now nothing, and short term it looks like they're trying to rent a defenseman that's maybe half as good as the player they traded. And the fact that Leddy has matured faster than anyone thought makes it worse. Jesus the flyers trade Richards and Carter because they have Giroux and JVR ready to take their place. And they get a serious effin Haul for those two- Simmonds, Schenn, and Coutourier are awesome complimentary pieces. (as is Voracek.). We've gotten nothing from trading Buff and Campbell- two ALL STARS!!!!! Nothing to show.

I don't think it's unfair to ask Stan to make a trade where the Hawks get the clear cut better player.
- yahoodi

Adam, I mostly agree. Where I disagree is on the Campbell deal. If the Hawks had gotten me in my Michigan beer league days back, it still would have been a good deal— provided you do something with the cap space. Just remember, prior to that deal, there was no way Sharp was getting re-signed, Alexander Salak was the default backup goalie. No Mayers.

The Byfuglien deal which was essentially this: Buff, Sopel and Akim Aliu for Morin, Marty Reasoner (which then turned into Jeff Taffe) a 1st and a 2nd round draft pick. The first rounder was I believe traded for two second round picks, one of which was dealt for Jimmy Hayes and the others used to take Rensfelt and Johns, I believe.

So what the Hawks have to show for Buff and Sopel is: a sort of boom or bust forward prospect (Morin), a sort of (maybe) a young Andrew Brunette (Hayes), a potential third line wing (Rensfelt) and a potential 5-6 defenseman (Johns). Too early to pass judgement on this deal Could go down as a good deal or a really, really bad one depending on how these guys pan out.

There were prospects and picks involved in pretty much all those cap clearing deals in 2010. Hard to say right now how good or bad they were. The Ladd deal right now does not look great.

Adam, I mostly agree. Where I disagree is on the Campbell deal. If the Hawks had gotten me in my Michigan beer league days back, it still would have been a good deal— provided you do something with the cap space. Just remember, prior to that deal, there was no way Sharp was getting re-signed, Alexander Salak was the default backup goalie. No Mayers.

The Byfuglien deal which was essentially this: Buff, Sopel and Akim Aliu for Morin, Marty Reasoner (which then turned into Jeff Taffe) a 1st and a 2nd round draft pick. The first rounder was I believe traded for two second round picks, one of which was dealt for Jimmy Hayes and the others used to take Rensfelt and Johns, I believe.

So what the Hawks have to show for Buff and Sopel is: a sort of boom or bust forward prospect (Morin), a sort of (maybe) a young Andrew Brunette (Hayes), a potential third line wing (Rensfelt) and a potential 5-6 defenseman (Johns). Too early to pass judgement on this deal Could go down as a good deal or a really, really bad one depending on how these guys pan out.

There were prospects and picks involved in pretty much all those cap clearing deals in 2010. Hard to say right now how good or bad they were. The Ladd deal right now does not look great.
- John Jaeckel

That's kind of what I'm driving at. Again, I'm not saying Stan is making bad deals. Far from it. I have no problem with any player he's traded. None of them. What I'm saying is Stan hasn't made a trade where the Hawks have gotten Immediate returns. Other than Campoli. And the bar has to be higher than that this round.

I have no problem with the Buff trade. Or the Steeger trade ( Stalberg is the only secondary scorer pulling his weight.) Even the Campbell trade IF they use the salary saved to their advantage. But all these trades, that apparently everyone loves, have put the Hawks in a position to make these upcoming trades. So these upcoming trades really should be home runs.

As for no Mayers, or Sharp's extension.....Please. Sharp's extension has no bearing on this year's cap. And Emery and Mayers fit into Turco and Pisani ( or Kopecky for that matter.) Also, if Campbell were still here you wouldn't need the lawfirm, of Underachieving, Old, and useless ( Montador, Old Donald, and Lepisto) currently taking up 4 million dollars...

Exactly my point. With the exception of the Barker deal (and only because the second peice of the Barker deal is blossoming...) all of those players were "dumped"...they weren't traded for players that are helping the Hawks. I know everyone will cry "Salary cap" on most of these deals but I don't buy it. Everyone screams that trading Campbell for Jack Squat is the right move because it gives us all this cap room. And what are the Hawks doing with all this cap room? Right now nothing, and short term it looks like they're trying to rent a defenseman that's maybe half as good as the player they traded. And the fact that Leddy has matured faster than anyone thought makes it worse. Jesus the flyers trade Richards and Carter because they have Giroux and JVR ready to take their place. And they get a serious effin Haul for those two- Simmonds, Schenn, and Coutourier are awesome complimentary pieces. (as is Voracek.). We've gotten nothing from trading Buff and Campbell- two ALL STARS!!!!! Nothing to show.

I don't think it's unfair to ask Stan to make a trade where the Hawks get the clear cut better player.
- yahoodi

You and I have chatted about this before.

The Campbell trade because it was last summer was a 100% a salary dump and in my opiniion teh Hawks were hell bent on making. This bring up questions...

The financial flexibilty is great but saving $4 mill or more now when there are needs after dumping Campbell for in essence nothing is a sour plan.

I think, as you brought up, if Bowman can't acquire a big addition or two now it signals that some of the young players and picks accumulated when the others were dumped after the Cup aren't too appealing in the eyes of other teams looking to rebulid.

There is time left but not too much.

then the need for some experienced, capable NHL help can’t be ignored.

Amen....

On Fox Chgo: Part-Time Effort Earns Blackhawks One Point://bit.ly/yCWoW1

Not enough effort? Not the right talent? Or a little of both?


- Al

From Al's article: A number two center would have been easier to acquire in the summer but Bowman put a lot faith in Kruger. That might have been a leap of faith not worth taking. At the very least Bowman will have to find another center that can help the Hawks hold onto the puck and improve their penalty killing.

Is it a case of they put too much faith in Kruger or they put too much faith in Kane's shift to the middle?

From Al's article: A number two center would have been easier to acquire in the summer but Bowman put a lot faith in Kruger. That might have been a leap of faith not worth taking. At the very least Bowman will have to find another center that can help the Hawks hold onto the puck and improve their penalty killing.

Is it a case of they put too much faith in Kruger or they put too much faith in Kane's shift to the middle?
- NewToHockey

Kane's shift to the middle almost seemed like a trial from the beginning...something to fall back on if needed and not a go to long term fix.